used car buying

[nemza123]

hey everyone, i need some used-car-buying advice.

i graduated pretty recently (07) and still live in the noho area--i've been wanting to buy a car for the past year or so, but haven't felt financially secure enough to do so. i finally do now--still not enough to buy a new car, or even a used car from a dealer, but enough to get a decent-ish one off of craigslist and trust that i'll be able to pay for it all in one shot, buy insurance, and get (some) work done on it if it needs. so yesterday, i went to look at a 99 saturn selling for $2000. the car was really nice--had clearly been maintained well, had had regular oil changes, etc. the owner was super-knowledgeable and answered many questions i had before i even asked them. i took it for a test drive, checked for everything my more-experienced-with-cars friends had warned me to check for, and thought the car drove great and really didn't seem to have any problems.

one person told me that before buying a used car, i should take it in to get a "used car check"--they gave me the name of a mechanic they trusted. i called the mechanic this morning after looking at the car last night, and they don't think they'll be able to look at anything until monday. the car's current owner wants to sell it by friday and says there's another person interested. this other person apparently also wants to do a used car check, but since they looked at the car last week, it'll probably happen faster than mine will.

i've never bought a car before/my family hasn't had a car either, so i just feel a little lost--i think the car is probably completely fine, but is it totally irresponsible to buy it without getting it checked out by a mechanic? i just don't want it to get snatched up while i take forever to make up my mind. it's the best thing i've seen on craigslist so far and i'm worried i won't see another one as good again.

advice? should i just buy the car??

anything anyone wants to throw in about insurance policies (which ones are good, whether or not i should put my roommate who will probs use the car at least as much as i will on it, etc) is welcome.

thanks!!!

[cecelia]

I can't help with the car buying but I do know that the Smith Alumni Association has some sort of partnership with Liberty Mutual. It might have gotten me a discount....can't really remember. I do know they give discounts if you get both car and renters insurance through them!

[cecelia]

Ok I just looked it up. My policy says my "Affinity Group" is the Alumnae Association of Smith College, and that I have an 8% Affinity Group discount

[SpringFlowers]

That is a TEN year old car. Don't buy it without having an experienced mechanic look at it. It will need repairs and a mechanic can not only prevent you from buying a car that will need more repairs than it's worth, they can help you determine what it will need immediately, in a year, or can be put off indefinitely. With a car this old, you actually do NOT know what it's going to cost you to purchase it until you discuss it with a mechanic. Right now, you're thinking "but it's only $2,000". You don't know that, and you won't know that, without a mechanic's opinion.

If you loose out on this particular one because of it, oh, well. Keep looking.

The worst car decisions of my life were made in a hurry.

Insurance: Do NOT do business with King & Cushman on King Street. They are unethical and rip-off artists. There was a definite pattern of them screwing Adas out of legally and rightfully due refunds on the un-used portion of their yearly insurance when they left in May. They just kept the refund, knowing you wouldn't be able to pursue it from out-of-state and it wouldn't be worth it to pursue it for the less than $500 or so. They were so rude and unreasonable to one Ada friend of mine while she was in there that the customer behind her cancelled his policy with them right then and there and gave her his card, offering to serve as a witness if she wanted to take legal action.

[MargieMac88]

Absolutely have a mechanic look at it. You also didn't say what the mileage was but thats a hugely important number especially in terms of repairs. A ten year old car with 50,000 miles is completely different then a car that is the same age with twice the mileage. On average there are a lot of repairs that take place around 100,000 miles. Also how many owners has the car had? Just b/c this one was good doesn't mean that the one before that was. How much of the maintenance history do you have? In a perfect world you want access to the car's entire maintenance history.

Just b/c the car has been well maintained in the day to day stuff doesn't mean that its not about to be in need of major repairs. Lots of things on cars have lifespans that relate to the mileage. You may still get another 100,000 miles out of the car once you replace the parts but it can be a huge upfront cost. Also depending on the car sinking the money to replace the timing belt, clutch, or brakes or whatever it is that die might not be worth it. Again a good mechanic will tell you this.

I don't drive, don't even have a license but my dad is serious car guy and everything above is what he has been telling me since he first started explaining combustion engines and road conditions to me when I was like 5. I think that it breaks his heart that both of his children have no interest in driving. But the point is have a car looked at by a mechanic especially since this is your first time buying a car. Also going through a dealer just means having their costs added to the price of a car and depending on the dealer it can still be in disrepair. My dad always buys his cars used and directly from owners. He is a strong believer that you aren't just looking at the car but you are also checking out the owner. My dad is funny about that but he swears by it. Either way get it taken to a mechanic.

[moonlitdorian]

Everything that's been said and:

Make sure you consider the cost of any routine stuff that's coming up. If it's going to need new tires, that's a big expense. If it's going to need something in 3,000 miles that costs $1000, you need to know that. So don't just ask what's wrong, ask about what kind of normal stuff is coming up.

Don't let yourself be pushed into a decision. If someone is being pushy, you may not want to buy from that person.

Can you take a more experienced with cars male friend along for some of this? It's horrible and sexist and dumb as shit, but when I did this last year I found that you get jerked around less and will get a better deal that way. Even if you do know what you're talking about, young women with a man get treated better in car buying than young women alone. Seriously, I could get people to say that they would consider lower prices over the phone just by saying that I would be bringing my dad with me when I looked at the car.

[LadyRed]

I'm the "more experienced with [buying] cars male friend" that goes along to help wheel and deal*, and short of buying from a dealer/carmax type place where you receive some sort of WARRANTY, you MUST get the car checked before buying it. Learn from my mistake:

While at Smith I bought my "dream" car for only $1,500. Within two weeks, I found out 1. the engine temperature gauge was broken, 2. there was a serious oil leak as evidenced by the 3. piston I shot through the block. I DID HAVE A MECHANIC LOOK AT IT, BUT NOT DO A FULL, COMPLETE INSPECTION. This is absolutely necessary to save you the hassle I had - I had to HARASS the previous owner with multiple threats in order to get most of my money back from him, and then (hey, it was a dream car) order a new engine from Japan, arrange to ship the car down to FL to the only mechanic I trusted to do the work, etc. etc. etc. it was a big fucking deal to get the damn car fixed.

IF YOU BUY A CAR FOR UNDER $5,000, EXPECT TO PUT AT LEAST $1,000 INTO IT IN THE FIRST YEAR OF OWNERSHIP.

As a sidenote, there is no fuckin way I would spend $2,000 on a ten year old used SATURN unless it had less than 50K miles. Honda, maybe.

I use State Farm for my car/condo/etc. (to insure my renter) and they are FABULOUS, and WAY cheaper than the plan the Alumnae association was pushing. If you want details on why I think they are FABULOUS I can send you a PM.


* Yes, moonlitdorian, you win the award for dumb sexist comments this week.

[moonlitdorian]

Or, I actually negotiated on cars recently and found that the older men I was dealing with became a lot more reasonable when talking to a man. Maybe it's more true in Georgia than Noho, but I'm not going to spend more money trying to make a statement.

Edit: It's an unfortunate fact of pretty much everything involving cars that I've dealt with. I, a 22 year old woman, and my dad say exactly the same damn words and he gets treated better in terms of service and money. My friends have had the same experience. I am young and female, therefore I am not taken seriously no matter how much I know. It sucks, but if handing the phone to a man lets me pay hundreds less so be it.

[LadyRed]

MLD, you're talking about two different things. First you were said that men are more "experienced" in car things, but now you're saying it's easier to have a man deal with older [sexist] men than a 22 year old female. Two different scenarios.

And you need to MAKE them take you seriously. Don't give me this cop out "oh, they don't take me seriously, I'm just a girl," because many of us here work in male-dominated industries and how we are treated, for the most part, is directly related to how we demand to be treated.

[moonlitdorian]

I didn't say that men were more experienced with cars. I just omitted a comma where I should have put one in. She said she was talking to friends who were more experienced with cars, and she should probably bring one along for the final talks. Also, if said friend were male, it might help out depending on who she's dealing with for the reasons I noted.

And it's not as if I just hand over all my affairs to men because I can't handle them. But if I suspect that I'm being jerked around by someone who won't take a woman seriously, I may just have one hold the phone or stand next to me for 5 minutes if large sums of money are involved. Or just mention that I have one who is willing to come over with me, as sometimes does the trick. And based on what the OP described and my experience buying cars, I think she may have one of those people. If not, she'll probably run into one at some point. (And actually, the "I have a male friend" trick partly works because it lets them know that I know what they're up to, which is why it works even if they never talk to said male.)

And it has nothing to do with not making people take me seriously in other areas of life, which I do know about, thanks. But at a certain point when you've spent hours and hours trying to find a car worth buying, it's easier just to deal with the jerkass because you have other things to be doing.


And for the OP: Keep in mind that sometimes people make money on the side by selling used cars that they buy at auction. Never assume that you're not negotiating with a used car dealer, and always pull the Carfax.

[misswheezie]

I am curious why the car is priced below blue book value - not to say that you can't find great deals on craigslist, but typically if they are really great deals, usually someone who is in the used car market snatches these up and resells them. what makes me leery of this deal is the fact that you are interested in it and looking to get a mechanic to check it out and someone else is looking at it and wanting to get it checked out - but then you say that the other person looked at it last week and probably will get the inspection before you....and the seller wants to sell by Friday....all seems kind of pushy.

Second, why is the vehicle priced so far below book value? Even though its a 99, given the market conditions now where people are buying used cars rather than new cars because of the instability in the auto market, asking too little is usually a tip off that something is wrong - unless the people are desperate for money. Would the vehicle pass inspection in its current condition - all the seat belts work, horn, lights, brakes, tires, etc. - if not, these are expenses that you are going to have to shell out within the first 7 days of buying the vehicle as it will need to be inspected.

Is it a one owner car? If not, when did the current owner buy the vehicle, and why are they selling it now? if they purchased the vehicle from a dealership, how long ago? If they purchased the vehicle within the last 1 - 2 years, and now are selling it for $2000 chances are they are just looking to dump the vehicle as most used vehicles on car lots sell for in excess of $5000, people who tend to buy used tend to either run it into the ground or use it as a trade in at a later date.

Here's a link for general info on reliability of different used vehicles, what typically goes wrong and typical costs to fix the problem - http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Relia ... &trimid=-1

[LadyRed]

OK MLD, I guess I misunderstood what you were saying. I just refuse to do what you're suggesting, no matter who I am dealing with.

[central]

I agree about having the car checked out no matter what. It's a tiny simple step that can save from many headaches in the long run. A good idea now would be to shop around for a mechanic, go speak to him/her and tell them what you are looking for and get their advice. Let them know that you are looking at cars and would like to bring them by for a full inspection and would like to continue using their services after you've purchased the car. I think mechanics are great people to have relationships with and it's never too early to start one. If you choose a small independent one, you will be better off for it.


I also agree with MLD, unfortunately, that nearly always (in my experience) having a male with you during the transaction can make it easier. It sucks, but those things haven't really changed. I knew a shitload about my last vehicle and I was the one doing most of the repairs on it but it never failed, when I had to take it to a place where I didn't know the mechanic, they always spoke to me like I was some bimbo. I would use all the proper terminology, negotiate on price and they'd still give the runaround. Most times I took a male friend with me, someone who didn't even know that a a tire can be changed without calling AAA and the whole exhcnage would change completely. The mechanic would listen to my car problems and agreee all while looking and talking to the guy as though the guy knew anything about cars. This is why I think its good to find a mechanic you feel comfortable with because not all of them will have this notion that girls can't be trusted with car knowledge.

I want to point out that I don't think people/men do this intentionally. It's just an ingrained thing and it's going to take awhile for that notion to die out.

In short, pass on this car and keep looking. If you've been without a car for this long, what's the rush?

[qwerty]

I agree with LR. Either put up or shut up. I know nothing about cars but I don't let some sexist standard force me to drag some man along with me. Oh, and don't buy that car if you don't have time to get a full inspection.

[SpringFlowers]

Bologna. If I can use some sexist idiot's prejudice against him to get 500 bucks out of him by dragging along any willing boy, then I'm gonna. I say you're winning the war on sexism by taking advantage of it.

I tricked a cop out of what would have been a very expensive speeding ticket by pulling my dash fuse, sticking it in my pocket, and then saying the lights had all gone out and I couldn't read my speedometer. The bastard told me to tell "my daddy when I got home" that I needed "a fuse", pronounced carefully so I could remember the unfamiliar term. Fuck him. He's a sexist pig and I got out of a $200 ticket by taking advantage of his ignorance. What am I gonna do? Strike a blow for feminism by asserting that I'm just out hot-rodding like any idiot boy and ought to pay the maximum fine? My ass. Women are fucked enough economically simply by being women. If I can tease out a little justice by taking advantage of those assumptions, then all's fair.

[LadyRed]

Bologna. If I can use some sexist idiot's prejudice against him to get 500 bucks out of him by dragging along any willing boy, then I'm gonna. I say you're winning the war on sexism by taking advantage of it.

If you say so

[SpringFlowers]

There's a great This American Life episode about a female professional poker player. There are several of her regular opponents who assume that if she wins, it's blind luck; if she loses, it's because she's a dumb woman and women can't play poker. She deliberately makes "dumb" mistakes just regularly enough to keep these sexist idiots believing that, so that they'll continue to play with - and loose to - her. That's definitely winning.

You're not going to change these individual idiots' minds. You think you're going to walk in, be talked down to, buy a car, and they're going to suddenly have a blinding flash of realization that you're a human being? The best thing to do is take advantage of their weakness (sexism) until they die out. I'd much rather kick 'em in their weak spot than make it my mission to reform them. It's not my mission. I'm not responsible for them. I'm responsible for me, and I use my power to save myself some hard-earned cash and use it to do good where I see fit - which isn't "proving some point" by over-paying for a used car.

[MargieMac88]

I was talking about this with a guy friend and he totally unprompted brought up the fact that girls can talk their way out of things, particularly speeding tickets, that he never can. Its a two way street. I am universally thought to be a bit of an airhead by the rest of the teams that I play pub trivia with. Every time they write me off b/c of my big boobs, occasional val girl (it comes out when I am excited), or the fact that my team will scream when we win I don't really care because I still clean the floor with them. Out of over a dozen teams, mine places in the top three the most consistently. Our team name is a gag on the fact that a lot of the older guys right us off. Yes every time "Our boobs are bigger than our brains" is announced I know that some assumptions are made.

Personally I feel that I get to chose my battles and honestly taking a guy along b/c some ass treats me like a little lady who is dumb as mud, isn't one that I care enough about to fight. If I can save money and time by bringing someone with a dick then I will do that in this case.

[central]

Amen, sister. I know I enjoy getting out of speeding tickets just because I have boobs. Not my fault people continue to be idiots and fall for it.

Bologna. If I can use some sexist idiot's prejudice against him to get 500 bucks out of him by dragging along any willing boy, then I'm gonna. I say you're winning the war on sexism by taking advantage of it.

I tricked a cop out of what would have been a very expensive speeding ticket by pulling my dash fuse, sticking it in my pocket, and then saying the lights had all gone out and I couldn't read my speedometer. The bastard told me to tell "my daddy when I got home" that I needed "a fuse", pronounced carefully so I could remember the unfamiliar term. Fuck him. He's a sexist pig and I got out of a $200 ticket by taking advantage of his ignorance. What am I gonna do? Strike a blow for feminism by asserting that I'm just out hot-rodding like any idiot boy and ought to pay the maximum fine? My ass. Women are fucked enough economically simply by being women. If I can tease out a little justice by taking advantage of those assumptions, then all's fair.